Comments on: The challenge of educational change

By: Mike Bogle

Mike Bogle — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:19:05 +0000

Oop, yes you're quite right about subversion being an internal force. Though surely external forces/pressure would exert at least some pressure on educational systems (or indeed structures of any kind). I guess the question would be the extent of the pressure and the degree to which it was sustained

By: Mike Bogle

Mike Bogle — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:01:44 +0000

Thanks Gina.

Personally though I will continue to see value in open education and social media and will continue to operate in this paradigm even if there is no uptake at a local level whatsoever. I continue to push for change because I believe it is important and that it's what's best for education and for learning more generally. This doesn't necessarily mean it will happen, that it will be easy, or that it will ever be widely recognised as having inherent value as a new way of working.

It is disheartening sometimes to feel as though no one wants to listen, but really the more I talk about this stuff the more I'm reminded of how much it means to me. So that in itself keeps me going - I'm reminded of why I've chosen to live and work in the open.

I think too that continuing to carry on in spite of adversity and skepticism is important because in doing so we model practice and essentially become use cases on what openness is, how it works, and what the benefits are. Just because people aren't listening now doesn't necessarily mean they won't slowly begin to recognise what is happening over time.

It's like moving a mountain one spoonful of sand at a time - you just have to keep at it.

By: gminks

gminks — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:04:08 +0000

I'm tired of fighting. Tired of mentoring. I want to see some of the organizational buy-in. When will that happen?
I've got a tired theme going on, I am almost done with another blog post addressing the issue of women in IT. I got very beat up and didn't feel like even thinking about it anymore.
And I was looking for a good quote about that. I found this one from Dr. King, I'm going to include it in my post (I think). Maybe it will make you feel like carrying on:
“This faith can give us courage to face the uncertainties of the future. It will give our tired feet new strength as we continue our forward stride toward the city of freedom. When our days become dreary with low-hovering clouds and our nights become darker than a thousand midnights, we will know that we are living in the creative turmoil of a genuine civilization struggling to be born.”
It may seem trivial to attach this to what you are feeling, but I think we see the power that these tools have to lift everyone up. We know they have the power to change the world. I think deep down we know that is why there is push-back, these tools will disrupt the power structures as they currently exist.

By: Mike Bogle

Mike Bogle — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:52:13 +0000

Oops, yes you're quite right about subversion being an internal force. Though surely external forces/pressure would exert at least some pressure on educational systems (or indeed structures of any kind). I guess the question would be the extent of the pressure and the degree to which it was sustained.

That said, I'm trying to think of a relevant example of this and am having coming up with one. The example of market forces (in a business sense) wouldn't work because education isn't necessaily subject to them. Perhaps a political one – for example a historical event where activism or sustained protests eventually forced a change in policy?

By: EduBlogging for Formal Institutions vs. EduBlogging for Lifelong Learning | The Netizens' Page

Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:17:41 +0000

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By: Lisa M. Lane

Lisa M. Lane — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:14:31 +0000

I don't think you can have *subversion* from outside the system, only actions that appear as rebellion against the system. These don't last because they aren't seen to impact the system really, just create an alternative to it.

If the reason you go outside the system is to create something to be used inside the system (like Jim's going to an outside server or me going to my own Moodle account), it's subversion because it sets a possible example that can be used by the insiders. When that happens, change can occur inside.

By: Mike Bogle

Mike Bogle — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:09:59 +0000

Good thoughts, thanks for that I must admit I was in a pretty pessimistic mood when I wrote this yesterday. To a fair degree I remain pretty skeptical about the possibilites of systemic change – there are too many chefs trying to control the recipe in the soup – however I hadn't considered the notion that all the infighting may actually be creating room for subversive pockets of innovation. That's a great thought really.

I'm curious too, could you expand on your distinction between rebellion and subversion within organisations as opposed to outside of it. Are there current examples of one versus the other – for example, would you consider the fact Jim Groom went outside local IT to host UMW blogs on an external server internal subversion? I suppose I would. What would be an example of subversion outside the system?

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Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:58:27 +0000

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By: Lisa M. Lane

Lisa M. Lane — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:06:22 +0000

As you know, I strongly believe in the ability of the subversive elements within the system to advance change. Rebellious change outside institutional structures is exciting, but doesn't last. And so long as inside the system there are fiefdoms fighting each other, change will continue to happen — it's when they stop fighting and become centralized that we need to worry. The structure must continually redefine itself anyway; that's just natural.

We're not building castles on quicksand, but I don't think it will have a lasting effect to create quicksand under the castles.